Hi Steve !

These numeric cameras are wonderful! Played with it like a child and his toy. It gives great pictures clear and sharp!

I want to share with you and all members a Benin style brass pot. The king is among his men. One holding an umbrella, another cooling off the king with a fan.(A fan is mayby not the apropriate word, but I am french and can t find the exact word. Correct me if it isn`t) Proceeded by a messenger banging on a drum, and another holding two wooden sticks (Don`t know what he represents....Maybe some kind of priest), the king is armed with a sword and is wearing a crown. Among his men, one is also armed with a sword, another with a rifle, another protecting himself with a hand shield. Probably preparing themselfs for a war.

The pot itself is decorated with beautiful carvings and filament decorations. The filament base is very cool too! The all measures 25 cm in height. I took several pictures to see it from all angles.

Thank you for the photos!

So, what do you think of my pot?

I would like someone speak of the gravings. Does the pot have a special purpose or is it a touriste work? There is fake bolts on the led and at the base. Why is that? Does the wheel on the base, at the left side, (we only see half ) has a meaning?

A freind (an african who`s familly lives over there), gave it to me as a gift, knowing me as an African art lover. He told me that it was his grandfather`s, and had it as far as he can remember as a child. Can that be?

Touriste or authentic, has little importance. I enjoy it! It is full of life. The figurines stands out the richness of African culture. The importance of everyones role in the society.

I love it very much!

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Hello Andre,

To the best of my knowledge your brass container appears to be a KUDUO, a form more specific to Ghana ( Akan, in fact). These vessels are well described in a book called AKAN TRANSFORMATIONS which traces the history of these containers in one of the articles. Kuduo are described as serving in rituals as containers for items relating to ancestral sprits, sometimes holding utensils relating to ritual ceremonies, sometimes holding goldweights. Scholars have shown that this form came to the Akan from the north via muslim traders- and in form continues to contain style elements which relate it directly to the Egypt and parts of the Islamic middle east. There is an example of one of these now on ebay ( item #2549601575) if you care to take a look.

best,
Scott

Hi Folks

Andre, your pot is very neat, indeed. Scott, thanks for finding the similar one. Since eBay auctions end after a short time, I've taken the liberty of downloading some of the images to our server and inserting them here so they'll be visible.





It's pretty obvious that this pot and Andre's belong to the same group.

Regards,

Steve Price

Hi to all!

I thank you Scott for the informations. It is quite interesting learning more of my pot! This is why I apreciate AFRO-DIT! Sharing knowledge and the same passion. Everybody can learn and discover something new!

REGARDS
Andre Lapointe

Hi to all!

After browsing internet sites about kuduo brass pots, I realized that there is few examples of them. Most of them are recent! Only rare ones with interesting designs, originality, and quality exist........on internet......!?

I question myself.........is this pot really authentic? I begin to feel the importance of the question!

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Hello Andre,
Unfortunately, I suspect your Kuduo is probably not "authentic" but it still has great value both artistically and ethnographically, because much of the history of Ghana and indeed West Africa can be illuminated by an examination of the origins of these kuduo.
Before, I menitoned the forms of the Kuduo has been traced to sources in Egypt and the middle East. But this source was indirect. The form of the Kuduo was brought to Ghana by muslim traders--very likely the agents of the King of Mali ( who would become the famous Dioula traders- who operate to this very day allover Africa/Europe and North America). The Dioula came to Ghana because of the rich gold fields found there, and they came to trade on behalf of the king of Mali who controlled the gold trade--at one point.
My computer is shutting down so I will finish this in a minute

....my computer shut down right in the middle of my composing the text. Apologies for the typos.

Anyway, the Akan took the form of the Kuduo and "africanized" it, developing the form over several centuries. You would have to look at the earliest forms to ever realize it's true origins. Concurrent with this was the massive european importation of brass in to West africa which led to an artistic explosion in the use of brass work over the past few centuries. The importation of brass and copper into W africa has been estimated in the hundreds-thousands of tons. The new supply of brass fueled the artistic development of brass smiths all over w africa-- who produced an amazingly diverse array of goods, from jewelry, goldweights,containers to ritual goods, etc. I recommend RED GOLD by Eugenia Herbert if you want a truly splendid overview.
So in sum the the Kuduo's history reflects the confluence of trade from two sources: the muslim north and the Europeans to the south on the coast, to serve the domestic needs of the Akan in their ceremonies.
So when you look at your Kuduo I hope you realize you are not just looking at a nice pot you are seeing an item of history which developed over several centuries.

Hi Scott

Yes ...Yes....Yes !!!!!!!! VERY INTERESTING !!!! AT LAST !!!!! Someone who is interested in African art, but also in African HISTORY!!! I LOVE AFRICA...I LOVE AFRICAN ART...I LOVE AFRICAN HISTORY! Your passion must be as high as me! Explaining in details the origins, demontrates your passion for Africa. That is the reason why I come to the AFRO-DIT forum.

You said that my pot my pot is probably not authentic....Why is that ? What is the reasons, the details that brings you to that concluson. I am not saying that you are wrong....NO.....but I just want to learn more of the KUDUO brass pots.

The importations of brass and copper has been estimated in hundreds-thousands of tons in West African. What did they exchange for that red gold? Not PURE GOLD !!???

I now look at my brass pot in a very differnt way now.
Thank you Scott

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Hello again. I hope my computer doesn't shut down.

Red Gold actually refers to COPPER which was preferred almost uniformly over gold in many african societies both west and central. Other than in Ghana, the use of gold in jewelry and in ritual use was quite small whereas the use and value for copper and it's alloys (brass and bronze) was massive, both over many miles and many centuries. For this reason, traders brought copper, brass and bronze to Africa in many forms to trade first over the Sahara and later from the Atlantic Caost. The various forms of copper alloys included manillas, basins, bars, rods, rings..too many to name. In exchange, traders ( whether from north or south) received slaves, ivory, gold, pepper, palm-oil..again too many to name. The value and esteem for copper is not to be overestimated. In many societies, only the king ,or the ruling class, was even allowed to possess or wear it.
Much of the copper and brass imported to africa cannot be accounted for, and it is thought that it's because it was buried. There is a very old book called Bronzes of Africa by Underwood which has great pictures of the famous bronze life-like heads of Kings that were discovered accidentally during an excavation for a construction project in Nigeria. I can only imagine the fantastic artworks that remained buried to this day.

As for your Kuduo, I don't consider myself an expert. But in terms of probability alone it is unlikely you could be so lucky as to have a truly authentic item. The production of copies has far outstripped the number of available authentic items. But I should say,your item however certainly adheres better to the artistic parameters of these Kuduo than the one on ebay.
The good news is that there are many scholars out there who have done tremendous scholarship. So in most cases, you can learn and better educate yourself--which allows the african art lover to truly SEE WITH BETTER EYES and thus appreciate more the art we so admire

Hi Scott

Another nice source of information about "red gold" is Schaedler's Earth and Ore, which I believe is still in print and fairly readily available.

You may not consider yourself an expert, but it is obvious that you know a great deal about some things and are generous with that knowledge. I believe that a community of reasonably well-informed people with attitudes like yours are able to collectively educate each other by sharing the very wide range of things about which each is well informed. That's my reason for maintaining this site - it's educational for me and I hope it will be educational for others as well. I also edit one on tribal and ethnographic textiles (Turkotek), and it has been highly successful in those terms.

Thanks, and with my best regards,

Steve Price

Hello,

Steve is quite right. EARTH AND ORE is fantastic book. It documents metal and ceramic work over a large swath of Africa. For your interests Andre it contains about 5 photos of Kuduo in the section on the Akan. Probably the easiest way to get the book is to order from CMG books or Oanbooks (see their websites), but the cheapest way may actually be through ABEBooks.com, I've found. There is no shortage of great books on African art, but one other that I also admire is AFRICA-THE ART OF A CONTINENT ( get the full edition not the abridged version) which again contains a wide selection of high quality art work.

best,
Scott

Hi Scott,

It is nice of you and I thank you very much for the book references. One thing though, are these sites safe while using credit cards? I never ordered from internet and I must say that I am a bit scared. All the stories I heard about people taking your credit card number !

It would be cool having an interesting book to read.

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Well obviously I was already on my computer to respond so quickly.

What I usually do is locate the bookdealer who has what I'm looking for online and then call them and place the order by phone. That way I avoid my paranoia of submitting my credit card online. But I have done it on some occasions. There was a monograph I was looking for called AFRICAN FIGHTING BRACELETS published in 1927. A dealer in California had the book for $150 whereas a dealer in the Netherlands had the same book for $15 (!) and in great condition. I ordered the book from the Netherlands and the transaction was as easy as if I got it from Amazon. Since that time I continue to find this type of great discrepancy in book pricing so it pays to search around online.
If you live near a museum with an African art collection they may have a library for the staff. If you call and ask permission they will let you use the library. Then you can look at many books first before you decide which you want to buy. I am not sure where you are in Canada, but CMG books is in Canada so you may be able to just visit there store. It will definitely be worth it.

Hope that helps some,
Scott

I was worried about using my credit card on-line as well Andre. What I did was to get another credit card with a low limit which I set and I use this only on line. I thought that if the worst were to happen, I could only loose the few hundred pounds of the limit and it is perfectl for buying books etc.
If you think about it there is just as much chance of fraud giving your card details over the telephone or in person at a shop.
I also agree with Scott that AFRICA-THE ART OF A CONTINENT is one of the very best books to have. I have also purchased several books from Abebooks an excellent site.
Regards
Ian

Hi

I agree with Ian on all points. Africa - The Art of a Continent is a wonderful general source. The risk of credit card fraud is probably no worse on the internet than it is when you hand the card to a waiter in a restaurant.

Incidentally, I experienced identity theft last year. A couple of 17 year old kids in Arizona got the information they needed to charge about $3000 worth of stuff to my card in two days. They were promptly caught by the police at that point. It caused me some irritation and tension, but no financial loss at all. I don't know what Canadian law does, but in the USA the cardholder (me or you) is only responsible for the first $50 in unauthorized charges to a credit card.

Regards,

Steve Price

Hi to all,

I thank you very much for all the tips. It is very kind from all of you. I see here the importance of this site! Members participate with great attention. I also thank Steve for the patience and the time he takes to run this site.

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Hi Steve

I do beleive that you made researches of my pot and your conclusion, if I refer to the new classification, it would be made in Cameroun!? Explain me please.

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Hi

I am insulted.....not my pot being cameroun.......but removig my pot from the discussion (show and tell suposingly for novice and expert) to Cameroun art metal figures, the cheapest form of African art and signed STEVE PRICE.....to show everybody that you are expert !!!! That insults me !

Andre

Hi Andre

I hope you aren't really insulted - that you're only kidding. I moved the discussion thread because the essay that I posted is about ethnographic art, made for use outside the tribal community. I think it's an interesting variant on the usual African tribal art, and (as I hope my essay makes clear), I think it can be very artistic and collectible. I hope there will be other discussion threads here that are related, and, after awhile, I will save all of them in the Archive.

If you are offended, I will gladly move this thread back to Show and Tell, and I apologize for what I did.

Regards

Steve Price

I am sorry Steve, but my pot does not come from cameroun !!!!
I am definately sure ! First of all, MY freind gave it to me who s familly lives in benin, not that far from Ghana!! And when He tells me that his grandfather had it as far as he knows .... I beleive him.........It may not be authentic.....100 years or older........maybe not......but not from cameroun!!!!! That s for sure !!!!!!!

I respect you for all your knowledge......but this time you went wrong........!!

Andre Lapointe

Hi Andre

I didn't move it because I thought your pot was from Cameroon, but because I thought it fit nicely with a discussion of the brass figurative pieces from Cameroon in my essay (which are also pretty old - probably about 70 years). I apologize for offending you, and I'll move this thread back to Show and Tell in a few minutes.

I am very sorry.



Steve Price

Hi Steve

I accept your apology, and I apologize myself. I must be too susceptible! I got carried away this time, and I must appear to all like a little boy and you would be right. I also apologize to all members here. I do not like to quarrelle, this is not my type of personallity. I got carried away maybe because I did not understood clearly the reason and the meaning why you wanted to start a new discussion forum.

I read your essay in the HOME page of Afro-dit. I had never noticed it before and never bothered looking. I always clicked on the discussion forums without paying any attention at the home page.

We had already discussed once of your brass Cameroun figurines that appeared in another discussion forum but I did not know that it was in the HOME page.

What is done ....is done..... I regret but I can not come back in the past. Even though it engendered action, I look at the futur and I hope good freindship and mutual respect.

Best Regards
Andre Lapointe

Hi Andre

The essay only went on line a few days ago, which is why you didn't see it. Should I start placing announcements of Home Page changes on the Forums page? I wonder how many others don't see what goes on there.

I'm glad we are still friends- that's important to me.

I can move topics around from one Forum to another with just a few mouse clicks, so if you'd like this one to be within the other Forum I'll put it there. If not, it will stay where it is.

Regards,

Steve Price

Hi Steve

I am very happy too!

Yes, I think that it would a good idea placing annoucements of HOME PAGE changes on the Forums page. If people are like me.....
they will never see what happens on HOME PAGE.


My opinion....I think you should try your new forum, see if people participates and has interest for it. It will propably work because lots of people, (more than we think), is interested in tourist art and is the most commonly collected. I think the forum must be less specific. Make a forum for tourist art......and different treads in that category. For example....metal art objets(bronze, brass,etc...), masks, statues. Or maybe different threads that would seperate the arts of different countries. (It is only suggestions). I think it would generates lots of interests from every kind of African art collectors. If you do not try, you will never know......you have nothing to lose....all to gain! That is what makes life interesting......challenges!

I erased my cookies from my computer and the site does not reconize me any more. I think the easiest way to correct the situation is to erase my membership, and I will register myself again.

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Hi again

I wanted to say that there is an image ...a photo that does not appear on your essay. It is the one that explains a woman perched on a small point, balanced on a tray held aloft by a very large man.

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Hi Andre

I fixed the link to the image of the balanced woman in the essay. Thanks for letting me know about that.

The easiest way to renew the cookie is to just log in - no need to register all over again. The login screen is at the lower right side of the main Forums page.

I'll insert an announcement about the new essay, and will put an announcement in every time a new one is added. I'm not sure about making a new forum for tourist art - it fits well within the Show and Tell forum, and I'd like to keep the Forum main page as small as possible.

Je vous remerci

Steve Price

Hi all

One thing that always strikes me when speaking to vendors in African craft markets is their tendency to confuse Cameroon with Benin. The two images attached represent examples of contemporary production that is readily available on the market: half the dealers (nearly all of whom hail from West Africa) describe these as "Benin Bronzes", the other half call them Cameroon figures. The two pictures below were sold as products of Benin, although I place no stock on that designation.





In any case, these are examples that might help illustrate Steve's very interesting Salon.

Regards to all
Stephen

Hi Stephen !

These figurines are very nice indeed ! But we all know that they are not from Benin. These kind of broze sculptures come from the reign of the Benin empire befor the famous punishing invasion of the British. They had gathered (the British) all of the royal treasures (mostly bronze figures ....etc....) to pay the expenses of such mission. Only a few authentic examples exist in museums.

I am aware of Cameroun art reproductions !

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Dear Andre

I am well aware that these are not from the oba period: they are, prehaps, circa 1995, when I bought them. But how do we know where they were reproduced? Why Cameroon as opposed to Benin (or Nigeria?)

Stephen

Hi Stephen !

This is a very good question. Maybe ask Steve Price ! He is the one who classified my pot coming from cameroun.

Merci
Andre Lapointe

Hi Andre

I don't think your pot is from Cameroon, and never intended to suggest that it was. I moved this thread into a forum that was about ethnographic African art made for sale to outsiders, and the pieces with which I introduced the subject were Cameroon brass figures. But the reason I thought this topic fit with the other one had nothing to do with geography, but with the fact that your pot also appears to be made for sale to outsiders and is, like my Cameroon brass figures, ethnographically and artistically interesting.

I still think the two discussions are very much related, but you were clearly offended by this, and my feelings about it aren't so strong that I would make you angry by putting them together.

Regards

Steve Price

Regards,

Steve Price

Hi Steve !

I did not have any intention to offend you in any way this time. I thought this discussion was over. It is well behind in the past. This forum is not a battlefeild.

I just wanted to refer someone who could answer Stehpen's question. The question is a very good one indeed ! It would be interesting to develop this discussion in oder to inform people to whom it may concern befor buying brass or bronze sculptures.

It is impossible for me to answer correctly this question.
Probably Scott is better than me in that domain since he has better knowledge about brass and bronze objects.

Best Regards,
Andre Lapointe

Hi Andre

I'm not offended. You said that I was the person to ask why the pot was thought to be from Cameroon because I was the one who said that it was. I didn't say that, and just wanted to correct the statement.



Steve Price